Holy Joys Podcast
A discussion of theology and ministry practice, all for a holy, happy church. A ministry of holyjoys.org.
Holy Joys Podcast
Modest Clothing, Part 1
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David Fry and Johnathan Arnold discuss modest clothing and biblical nakedness.
Topics discussed:
- Genesis 2–3
- Nakedness
- Sin and shame
- Clothing as a gospel symbol
- Atonement
After the fall, you have all the curses, but then you have this gracious gift. The only reason we wear clothing at all is because of God's grace.
SPEAKER_01Most Christians today have grown up in a culture that just doesn't give much attention to this for a lot of different reasons. For some, there is just sort of an oversight of the theology of the Old Testament and its relevance for Christian faith today.
SPEAKER_00You're listening to the Holy Joys Podcast, co-hosted by Jonathan Arnold and Dr. David Fry. Visit us at holyjoys.org and stay tuned for weekly discussions of theology and ministry practice, all for a holy, happy church.
SPEAKER_02Alright, we're back together to discuss a topic that has been on the agenda for some time now. Uh, the subject of modesty and specifically modest clothing that covers our nakedness. I've written several articles for Holy Joys on this subject, including one that is trying to push the conversation towards a more gospel-centered approach to modesty, looking at a biblical theology of nakedness starting at Genesis and seeing how that points us to Jesus Christ and how clothing is a symbol of the gospel. But usually when this subject comes up, uh we just refer to modesty. Modesty is kind of the term that drives the discussion. So why don't we just start there? Um, you know, what do we mean by modesty? How is that used? And then how is it maybe used differently in uh the broader culture?
SPEAKER_01Sure. In our subculture, when someone uses a phrase like uh we need to be modest, uh, it's usually said within an understanding uh that our subculture has that we're speaking especially of how one appears or how one is clothed. And while that is a common understanding, I think, in the broader culture, it's certainly not the only understanding. And so uh this conversation can often uh can often turn in a way that someone who is not accustomed to uh our way of speaking of modesty may just kind of be lost as to what exactly we're talking about. Because modesty, the word itself in the English language is actually quite broad and actually historically has more to do with uh our behavior rather than our appearance. Uh now, in uh in in Christian history and certainly in uh uh Jewish history, there is a strong uh understanding historically of modesty as it relates to our appearance. Uh, and we'll get into some of that more. But as we are speaking, say, as pastors from the pulpit or as teachers with perhaps uh new believers who are coming in from an unchurched uh life uh and past, uh they're gonna need oriented to uh the fact that we believe in modesty broadly as as a matter of acting in a respectful way or with restraint or in a way that's honorable to the situation, uh, but we also uh often use the word modest specifically as to our appearance and in our clothing.
SPEAKER_02Right. Yeah, so you know, I think of an example where maybe somebody's complimenting another person, and that person says, Oh, no, no, I didn't really do that that good of a job. And then they would say, You're just being modest, you know, you're just being modest. So there the idea is, you know, humble and unassuming, they're um, they're downplaying, you know, maybe their abilities or whatever. And so there's a uh inward modesty, uh, more broadly speaking, that should be reflected in our appearance. So we care about modesty of heart, um, but that should be expressed in you know, decent, proper, respectable um dress. And that's the narrow sense that we're using it here of properly covering the body with clothing. And so, you know, when we discuss this issue of properly covering the body with clothing, dressing in a proper, respectable, decent way, um, I think the the biblical word that comes up again and again is this idea of nakedness and covering your nakedness. That is the theologically rich word and concept that comes up from the very beginning. And so the Bible doesn't often use the word modesty. You're not gonna find the word modesty, you know, in relationship to covering the body. You're gonna find this concept of the nakedness needing to be covered or clothed. And I think that takes us, you know, right back to the beginning there with uh Genesis one through three.
SPEAKER_01One could argue that First Corinthians 12, 23 has a reference, you know, where where the more unseemly parts, I think that's the King James King James language, uh, you know, are covered or treated, you know, in a way. And there are some translations that I think do use the word modest there. So it is there. Okay. So I I think the point, uh, you know, going back to definition of modesty, uh, the English word, of course, comes from the Latin word, um, which the spelling is very similar. And it I think the the word that is most meaningful as far as behavior is restraint, uh, to exercise restraint. And and the word respect is also part of that definition. And so it's an understanding of of the situation, uh, the people that you are around, uh, it's respect uh in Christian uh in Christian and uh Jewish history, it's especially, of course, respect for God's law, uh, number one. Uh secondly, respect of of ourselves, our own body, respecting who we are as persons created in the image of God, and as Christians, as persons who are in Christ. So there's a respect there. And then uh respect and restraint in regard to uh the context in which we're in, whether that is a a private or public con uh context, and um making sure that we are treating ourselves and the way we present ourselves to others properly, decently, and and with restraint. It this is a a principle, this is a a virtue. Modesty is a virtue that again has a long history in uh the Judeo-Christian uh tradition. And um and sometimes we actually let me go ahead and share a little story here, because sometimes we become in our subculture so hyper-focused on modesty applied to appearance that we kind of forget about being modest in other ways too. So uh I I was walking through the mall with uh a couple of my young boys, and there's a group of teenagers there, and one of them uh used some some uh some curse words, and another one of the teenagers uh hushed them and said, Hey, stop, there's some you know young boys over there. Well, that that teenager was being modest, right? He was exercising, recognizing, hey, that's you you need to restrain yourself, you need to have some decency here. There's some young kids here. And uh, you know, I I appreciated that. I acknowledge that. And so I think it is important in this, um in regard to our concept of modesty, that as a subculture, we uh bring alongside our consideration of this virtue, uh, that this restraint is actually exercised across the board and not only uh in this one area to which we typically give you know probably 99% or if not 100% of our attention toward. Right.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, the uh the word modesty, as far as I know, appears there in First Corinthians 12 23. And then um the only other reference is first Timothy 2.9. Right, yeah, with uh respectable apparel with modesty and self-control. So you see how modesty there is is kind of crouched in these virtues of being respectful or respectable and being uh being self-controlled.
SPEAKER_01So there's a there are actually actually in that first Timothy uh two nine passage, uh different translations uh translate a couple of different words there as modesty. So uh there are actually two words there uh that are translated in various uh versions as modest. Uh but you still have you have the concept again, that's what we're aiming at. Uh you have both the concept of respect, which I think is the first uh word uh that's uh oh, I don't have in front of me now, I didn't pull it up, but uh the first one I think is more of the nuanced as respect, and then the other as uh avoiding shame, uh decency, restraint.
SPEAKER_02So when it comes to this the specific issue of properly covering the body or covering our bodies in a way that is uh is respect respectable and decent, um, you know, where do where do we see this issue being addressed in scripture? In the New Testament, it it doesn't seem to be a focus, right? And so that that I think maybe is one of the reasons why we see a lot of neglect in this area. It's just not addressed a lot in the New Testament, and uh we tend to be New Testament Christians, we tend to be uh sometimes kind of ignorant of our Old Testament or not always see it as being relevant, um, being directly applicable to our lives. And so, you know, you you read the New Testament, you're not going to read much about this issue of covering the body. So, how do we begin to to navigate this issue with uh a culture and with a church world that's just not really accustomed to even thinking about it or talking about it very much? It's kind of gone by kind of going by the wayside.
SPEAKER_01The concept of the broad concept of modesty, of course, is all through the New Testament, uh, even pertaining to our dress, but specifically instruction that tells us, you know, here's where the lines are. Uh you know, we don't have that spelled out in the New Testament. And the reason is because the early Christians, and of course those who followed uh the Old Testament teaching, had a common understanding of what that meant. And uh that common understanding, uh, by the way, has typically uh well, it's I think it's lasted four millennia, uh, I think I would argue, uh, really up until the 20th century when uh Western culture especially began to to shift quite dramatically. And so uh what it what used to be common sense or communal sense among uh Christians in particular uh is no longer communal sense. Um you know, I know we have this conversation, I go through the scriptures, uh which we'll raise from the Old Testament here. Uh I go through those in our membership class, and repeatedly uh the issue that comes up is, or the question that comes up is uh well, I've never heard this. I or or what about all of the other Christians? Like most of the Christians in the world don't understand it this way. And so we have to give some account to that as well. And uh my response, first of all, is uh well, first of all, what the majority thinks is not necessarily the right thing. Uh but secondly, uh it is true that what the Bible says and the instruction it gives uh is uh is there's not a lot there. There is there is you know, there are some important passages at critical points in the history of Israel, but it's not something that is just repeated over and over and over again. And so the passages are a little bit obscure, and and so the truth is is that uh most Christians, uh at least in the Western world today, uh simply are not aware of what the Bible has to say about this. Um while they do, and I think there is some uh some understanding if if you were to just go to a you know random church and ask somebody, hey, what do you you know, do you think Christians ought to be dressed modestly? And they would probably say, Oh, yes, of course, but then uh you probably won't agree with what that means, right? Uh and so and so um there are some important questions that come from a conversation like that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so I think the key point uh that you made there uh from for me in this discussion is that when it comes to trying to establish some kind of standard, like specific standard of modesty, what we should and shouldn't wear, or what is a what is appropriate or inappropriate clothing uh for the body, we don't have a lot of data to work with in the Bible. And that could lead somebody to say, well, see, it really isn't that big of a deal. Um, you know, it it really doesn't matter that much. God would have said more about it if it really mattered. Um but what I want to say is the places where it is addressed in scripture are extremely weighty. They are few, but they are weighty. And the reason why it's not addressed more is because these things were assumed. They were, they were taken for granted that this is how God's people would dress than just how any modest, respectable person would dress. Um, so you know, we can't we can't just discount this issue. We need to pay attention to the data that is there because all scripture is God breathed, all scripture is profitable, and uh we need to um pay the closer attention, the more diligent attention to the data that is there, because we're living in a culture that's now thrown off all you know, almost all standard of modesty, where uncovering the body is a sign of liberation and freedom and expression. And and um, and and we see that that you know, as Christians now in this this kind of a culture for the first time in history, uh in many ways, not that there haven't always there's always been in modesty, right? But but not to this extent. Uh, this is unusual. We now are going to have to uh pay the closer attention to to this data, which has just been maybe taken for granted in the past.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, certainly. And if there's ever a time that we are the church is uh situated to really be clear about God's teaching, it's now because uh with the you know past century of kind of casting off modesty, uh there is uh it's the question is returning to to the mind of Christians. Uh there is some concern, even among uh you know traditions and Christians who have grown up uh without anything even near the the standard that that uh say my family uh observes. Uh but the question continues to come up, and I continue to see articles being written from different perspectives, reformed perspectives, uh Roman Catholic perspectives, uh Lutheran. I see articles in the last uh two years that are giving attention to this this question. And I I think as I approach the the issue, rather than jumping straight into okay, here's here's what the biblical lines are, in my understanding, and so you know, go go practice this. Uh, I think it's really important to look at the context. You mentioned you know, these are big passages. Uh, and although I think earlier I said they're a little bit obscure, the reason I say obscure is because they appear in really important moments, but they're details in a larger story. And so Genesis 2 and 3, for instance. Obviously, there's the end of creation, and then Adam and Eve in the garden, and sin, the fall, the curse, uh, you know, all of that. That that's a big event. That's that's a major event in the whole biblical story. But in the details are some really important uh points in regard to this issue of how to be properly clothed. And so I think the the approach that we ought to take as as pastors and teachers is to actually delve into the theology that's behind clothing or covering our nakedness before getting to what does that mean? What are the particular lines? Right.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think we need to have a theology of nakedness. That is, again, I think a theme that runs through all of scripture from beginning to end. Nakedness is just a very rich, it's very theologically loaded uh term that can be you know used symbolically and is used symbolically, especially in the prophets, even into the book of Revelation with the church at Laodicea. Uh, and this goes all the way back to the garden, where in these foundational chapters of the Bible, Genesis 1 through 3, nakedness is used as one very key way to describe the unfolding story of creation, fall, redemption. So, you know, you have the creation of the world, it's very good. Everything in that world is very good. And the verse that characterizes life in a perfect world, what was it like? Is naked and unashamed, that they were living in this condition where the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed. That nakedness was something very good. And I think here we see a symbol of transparency, you know, openness. They're not having to cover anything, but they're just totally and fully exposed and transparent with one another. There is, there's no shame, there's no guilt, there's no hiding from one another, there's openness, they're totally real with one another. And um, and that's the kind of you know relationship today that we're still supposed to be able to have with our spouse in the confines of you know a covenant marriage where we're able to be once again, hopefully naked and unashamed, although we live in a fallen world and that's sometimes tainted. Um, but this is something that was experienced and would have been experienced by all humanity had not the fall you know come about. And um, and so we see life is characterized by, and then when the fall happens, again, the thing that characterizes the fall is shame, hiding, covering the nakedness, trying to uh not be in God's immediate presence, but but cover oneself, and then finding that um that their covering was inadequate, and God had to provide a greater covering by the death of an animal being covered in garments of skin, you know, pointing forward to Jesus Christ. So the fact that the whole Bible sets up the unfolding story of creation, fall, and redemption in terms of nakedness, I think elevates this to a major theme in biblical theology.
SPEAKER_01It does. It does. And you made reference to Genesis 2.25 there, where it's very important that that at that juncture in the story of moving from creation and then the next chapter goes directly into the temptation and the fall. Like the transition between those two is this statement that Adam and Eve were both naked and unashamed. That that's important, like that's a really crucial transition because it's we know that it's looking forward, but it's also a a summary of where the world is at that moment, in particular where humanity is at that moment. And it also tells us that uh in and of itself, nakedness free from all perversion and sin, is is not an evil. Uh Adam and Eve, you know, they they know each other in a in a very public way. And when I say no, I don't mean sexual sexually uh there, but I mean uh in in every way. They're they are exposed to one another in a very unperverted way. That is what changes after uh Genesis uh uh three. And uh and so what we learn then is that in Genesis three, that The our nakedness then becomes a symbol of the shame of sin. So those those two words which are connected, nakedness and and shame, in Genesis 2 25, there's a reason they're connected there, and that's because of what's about to come. They were naked and unashamed, and they are about to be naked and ashamed. In chapter 3, verse 10, Adam is afraid, and he says, I was afraid because I was naked and I hid myself. And of course, we know he can't hide himself from God, and as none of us can.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think if you're reading this narrative carefully, nakedness is really uh it's it's driving the narrative here because you look at um the whole idea of eating the fruit, the forbidden fruit, is supposed to, you know, open their eyes that they can be like God, they can know good and evil. Um, but verse 7 says the eyes of both were opened and they knew that they were naked. Like the first thing that results from this, the awareness is this awareness of nakedness. So this idea of nakedness really driving, it's driving the narrative. It's it's right, and I think you made a great point there with the transition between that initial um you know summary of God making man and woman uh and in chapter two, and then into chapter three with the fall. That's really the hinge point there. So, you know, nakedness is a key theme in the literature in the literature itself. It's the unfolding and developing narrative. And so when you think about uh the Bible as a whole, I think nakedness is also a theme in the unfolding narrative of uh of Israel's whole history.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02As they go into exile, just as they went into exile from the garden, once again their captors strip them and their nakedness is exposed. Their sin, their evil, their rebellion against their God, their violation of the covenant that God has made with them again leads to exposed nakedness and shame. And so, really, there's just a repetition of this progression throughout the Old Testament, as again and again, when God's people sin, it leads to exposed nakedness and shame. They need somebody to come along now who's going to be able to properly cover and clothe their nakedness so that they can live in a way that's truly free. Um, they don't have to live, walk around feeling ashamed, but they can be, they can be comfortable in their own skin, you know? But really, it's not comfortable in their own skin, it's comfortable in the skin of Christ's righteousness. And so it frees them to experience something of the original transparency and openness that they had before the fall. And um, to miss that theme, I think is really to miss something really fundamental to not just the unfolding narrative in Genesis, but the unfolding narrative of the entire Old Testament.
SPEAKER_01Uh yeah, it is. As you were uh saying that, I just did a quick search to see how many times the word shame appears in the prophets, and it's dozens, right? Uh dozens and dozens of times uh through uh I mean it looks like uh just about every prophet, including the minor prophets, talks talk about uh shame. Um yeah, so so certainly uh going back to uh how their nakedness, Adam and Eve's nakedness in the garden, uh kind of drives that narrative. Yeah, certainly. I mean that's that's very, I think, uh just right out front and obvious. Uh I think what is more obscure is uh actually Genesis 3.21, where God uh where he makes garments of skins and and clothes them. And and I mean that that's we all know that. I mean, that's definitely part of the narrative, but theologically, people kind of look over that. I don't think there's a I think the theology of that verse is what's really obscure. And uh and and so I think we need to pause for for a few minutes here and and just look at at what is being said here because uh remember um you know death was assured uh uh upon sin, and death in fact did occur upon sin. And uh in this case it was a vicarious death. Uh, we don't we're not told what sort of animal it was, but some animal gave up their skin, gave up their life for the sake of uh Adam and Eve being properly clothed. Uh so garments of skins covered them. You know, that's not incidental, it's not um it's is not just an empty detail. Uh this is theologically rich uh because it tells us uh a few different things, mainly that uh God's clothing of them was an act of grace, and that there was a sacrifice of life for the sake of them being properly their shame being covered. We have, I believe, we have an image here of the atonement of Christ, because as we know, the New Testament uses Paul especially loves the language of being clothed with Christ, of putting on Christ. And I really think that that goes back to this verse that this becomes a foundational verse for that theology of putting on Christ.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and the Lord made the garments of skins, right? So this is something that God does, which Adam and Eve couldn't do for themselves. So it's like the first, you know, after the fall, yeah you have all the curses, right? But then you have this uh this gracious gift, this gracious uh act of redemption, really. It's redemptive. It's something that is to obviously point them forward, but even for Adam and Eve in that moment, that the God who they had just offended, the God whose law they had just broken, would at the cost of one of his other creatures who hadn't done anything wrong, right? The animal that had to die for those skins, they hadn't sinned, right? And imagine, you know, I don't know if Adam and Eve saw that happen, but imagine knowing that one of these other creatures that you had named, that you had interacted with, that was in this, shared this perfectly good world with you, now has to die because of your sin. And God has allowed one of his other creatures to be slain for your sake. You who are a lawbreaker, you who are unworthy of this gift, and now you're being clothed. And so clothing becomes from the very beginning as a gift of God's gracious love and his redemption and his mercy. Clothing is not just this necessary evil, and this is this is something that I think people who grew up in a context where clothing was all about rules, what you can and cannot wear, very strict, very controlling, very fear-based, very guilt-based, very shame-driven. They've come to view clothing just as this necessary evil, something I have to do, and never really thought that the only reason we wear clothing at all is because of God's grace.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And I think let me go back again to Genesis 3, verse 7, because there's another theological point then that needs to be made, and that is uh in verse 21, God is making them garments of skin, he's covering them. But back in in verse 7, where Adam and Eve recognize their nakedness, but they do not understand the extent of their shame, because they sew together fig leaves and make themselves loincloths, but when God comes along, he sees that they are still improperly covered, they are still exposing their shame. And wow, if there's ever a lesson for us today, uh, in a world that thinks that we know what is or isn't shameful, or or people are rather unashamed of their nakedness, um, while do we need to hear again God's God's word on this point? Uh, because uh in a uh I guess in a very literal physical way, that's an issue, but also in a metaphorical way, uh, humans, we may feel shame or we may feel uh the yes, the sh the shame of of sin, but we do not know how to cover that. We cannot cover that. We do not have the ability to cover that on ourselves. And I think Adam and Eve's uh futile attempt, yes, it was an attempt, but it was a futile attempt to try to cover themselves, speaks again theologically of the fact that we need the Lord our God to make for us a covering for our shame. And and so clothing, which was an act of God's grace, becomes then the symbol, the first symbol of us receiving grace from God. It is, it's it in fact, it is it's right away, right? You have you have the curse here to uh you know announce to the serpent, announce to the woman, announce to Adam, and what comes next, uh it is immediately God covering them, making making clothes for them and clothing them properly, giving, giving them this symbol, giving to humanity a symbol that will forever be a sign of us being recipients of his grace. And so what I say is when we do not follow the biblical instruction for covering our nakedness, we are putting off the sign that God has given to us of being a recipient of his redeeming grace.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and that's not always conscious or intentional, right? It can be done in ignorance. So, you know, symbol and reality, uh obviously reality is the most important thing, but we also want to preserve the symbolism that God's given to us. And I think we can see in our culture, in our world, how people who you know walk around very immodestly dressed um are the same kind of people who tend to live by their own standard of morality. We invent for ourselves, just like Adam and Eve, a covering that we think is good enough, we think is sufficient, rather than looking to God to receive something from him. You know, Adam and Eve's first action after the fall should have been, you know, God, we've sinned. What now? Look to God as our source for forgiveness and righteousness and cleansing. But the first instinct instead is to try to invent a standard for myself that's good enough, that's sufficient to cover up my sin and shame. And that's the very same thing that we do when we invent inadequate coverings for our nakedness today. Even if that's not our attitude or our intention, that's certainly what's being reflected symbolically.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, certainly. Uh, no question. And again, that can often, I think very often, is done very ignorantly because we uh most Christians today have grown up in a um culture that just doesn't give much attention attention to this for a lot of different reasons. Uh for for some, uh there is just sort of a um overs oversight of uh the theology of the old testament and its relevance for Christian faith today. Uh that's I think part of it. And uh and then you know another reason may be that uh uh people just don't see this as something that is uh universally important or timeless.
SPEAKER_02So so far we've basically established that really a lot is at stake in the issue of modest clothing, because from the very beginning, clothing was something that was given by God as a gospel symbol and really is a key theme. The covering of our nakedness or its exposure is a key thing theme in scripture. Um, one of the things that I'll hear is that, well, Jesus, since Jesus, you know, freed us from the shame of sin, since he's covered our nakedness spiritually, the you know, the symbol really isn't that big of a deal anymore because the reality has come. The symbol isn't as important. And uh, I've read essays on you know Christian history of Christian art, where we do have Christian painters commission, I'm not painters commissioned by the church, commissioning artwork of people who are nude. Um, how do we think about the the relationship between us as new covenant believers and the old covenants regarded to nakedness? Has Christ's sacrifice on the sin made clothing you know not as important anymore? And let me give you a concrete example before we answer here. I just saw somebody post a thread on uh social media encouraging women to to Christian women to expose their bodies because if their brothers and sisters in the Lord, or the brothers particularly, are really living in love, they will learn, they will learn to look lovingly and not lustfully anymore. And so really embracing this idea, uh really a secular cultural idea, but with a thin Christian veneer, that since Jesus has set us free from the shame of sin, we shouldn't be ashamed anymore to expose our bodies. So this is a very real issue, uh, not just hypothetical. How would you respond to something like that?
SPEAKER_01Uh well, first of all, I'm appalled at that sort of reasoning. Uh, but uh secondly, I would say that uh we should look at what uh Jesus Christ did for us on on the cross and that he was crucified naked, and that uh what he was not doing was uh overturning in that case uh you know the symbol of covering. I think you called it a gospel symbol. He was not disposing of the gospel uh symbol of clothing, rather, he was doing what uh I think Hebrews 12.2 says, you know, he he endured the cross, despising the shame. That means uh he did not think it something too great to experience the shame of being crucified naked on the cross for us. And I think there's something important to to that fact that he was crucified naked, because in a in in a uh he is suffering the ultimate shame that human sin produces, uh not only in his suffering of you know and shedding of blood, but his suffering of of nakedness. And and and there's a sense in which you know his his crucifixion was a very bloody affair, right? I mean, it was uh he was um you know he of course was was beaten before he was uh placed on the cross. He obviously was nailed to the cross. Uh he had a crown of thorns placed on his head. Uh he uh you know after he had died, he he had the spear thrust into his side. I mean his his body was uh was clothed in his own blood. It was uh he was exposed because he was exposing the shame of sin and then and yet covering it with his blood. I mean there's a there the the symbol of what he is uh of the of the cross with you know our savior naked and bleeding and dying uh is cannot be disconnected from what happened in Genesis 3 uh with the clothing of human shame. So uh uh the Hebrew writer, of course, um uh makes that connection with the use of the concept of shame uh there in Hebrews 12. And and so I think that that theology of recognizing what Jesus is doing, uh that he is not like the author you just mentioned, whoever that was, uh he is not reversing or dismissing the gospel symbol. He's affirming, he's affirming that gospel symbol. Right.
SPEAKER_02So Adam and Eve were naked and ashamed, they have a loincloth, you know, they make a loincloth for themselves. That's not pro a proper covering, but God has to provide uh a covering of skin, an animal skin. And that points forward to Jesus providing that reality uh of a clothing for our for our sin and shame. When he, in order for him to die to provide that garment of skin righteousness, he first has to reverse the sin and shame that came from Adam's fall. So he hangs there as the second Adam, naked and ashamed, but yet with not ashamed to bear the shame, right? He does not despise the shame. And because he bears it, the result is that then we get to be clothed with the righteous. So there's a reversal going on here, um, which doesn't uh abolish the gospel symbol, but it fulfills it. Uh, and so it's the reality uh is is certainly available to us, but the symbol is affirmed, not done away with.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Yes, for for certain. And and which is why then the instruction that we do have in the New Testament begins with you know putting on Christ. Uh, but then there are passages like 1 Peter 3, and there are other passages that still do talk about our outward appearance, uh, even though they don't get into the particular lines of what uh you know what counts as nakedness or not. Again, that's already understood from the Old Testament. Uh, but it it produces this theme then of being of putting on Christ, and that part of putting on Christ is includes the way we present ourselves modestly and having our shame covered in the presence of others.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think you you drew a good connection there with like First Timothy. The idea that our inward, the inward reality of our character is supposed to be displayed outwardly. And that is just a general affirmation. There's a general principle there that uh an inward reality doesn't do away with the need for outward symbols. And so the way that those two things have been tied together from the beginning, um, I think they're still tied together. And so we need to have a discussion today as the church about okay, well, what is our nakedness then? And how should it be clothed? And uh what kinds of clothing are appropriate or inappropriate for believers uh to wear. I think that's an important, it's a hard discussion, but I think it's one that we need to have.
SPEAKER_00It is, and that's uh where our conversation will continue. Thank you for listening to the Holy Joys Podcast. Email your questions to podcast at holyjoys.org, and they may be featured on a future episode. Our labors for a Holy Happy Church are supported by generous listeners like you. Please pray about partnering with us at holyjoys.org forward slash donate.
