Holy Joys Podcast
A discussion of theology and ministry practice, all for a holy, happy church. A ministry of holyjoys.org.
Holy Joys Podcast
Ascension Day, Pentecost Sunday, and the Gospel of the Kingdom
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Dr. Fry and Johnathan Arnold discuss the ascension of Christ and subsequent outpouring of the Spirit at Pentecost.
If the good news is that Jesus is king, that Jesus is Lord, then uh certainly the King taking his throne in heaven to reign above is uh is part of the good news that he is exalted and he reigns. Jesus reigns, he is risen from the dead and and he is Lord.
SPEAKER_02Yes, we believe in the bodily resurrection, but we have to continue with that physical theology and say yes, and he ascended visibly and bodily.
SPEAKER_00You're listening to the Holy Joys podcast, co-hosted by Jonathan Arnold and Dr. David Fry. Visit us at holyjoys.org and stay tuned for weekly discussions of theology and ministry practice, all for a holy, happy church.
SPEAKER_01We're a few weeks into Easter and coming up quickly on Ascension Day. Be celebrated at our church on the Sunday following Ascension Day, be May 16th, and then the week after Pentecost Sunday. So we have Ascension Day and Ascension Sunday and Pentecost Sunday right back to back. And Pentecost Sunday will conclude the Easter season. We've mentioned a few times in our conversations about how Easter is not just a day, but it's really a season of celebrating the resurrection. And I have been preaching through Acts chapter two, and one of my goals in that series is to try to connect the resurrection, ascension, and pouring out of the Spirit together as really one event, as part of Christ's exaltation. And Acts 2, 33 and forward says, well, actually, let me back up a verse here. Start at verse 32. This Jesus, God raised up, and of that we are all witnesses, being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing at Pentecost. For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says, the Lord said to my Lord, Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool. And I think that's like the most cited or one of the most cited Old Testament uh verses. And so Christ um being resurrected and then he continues to go up, you know, it comes up out of the grave and continues to go up, up, up. This is the you know, the the exaltation portion of the uh the incarnation. He comes down for us and for our salvation. He goes down to death and then descends to the dead. This is like the hinge or the beginning of the exaltation, and he's resurrected up and keeps going up, up, and then he goes into heaven, enters into heaven, sits at the right hand of God, the Father Almighty. That's his session, his sitting or his session. Um, and he he is there to sit at the right hand until God makes his enemies his footstool. So he is reigning as king. He's not just hanging out in heaven, but he is reigning as king. And this is part of the gospel message that the apostles preached. We tend to think about the gospel as being about the cross, uh the atonement as being about the cross. Sometimes we include the resurrection in that. We've talked about, though, how often the resurrection gets gets neglected or it's of secondary importance, or it's not clear how it's necessary to our redemption. But what strikes me is that in Luke Acts, uh, and especially in the apostolic preaching in Acts, of central importance is the resurrection. Sometimes almost it seems overshadowing the cross in the sense that uh it's it's it's more explicit, or some of the gospel messages don't even include the cross, they include the resurrection. It's just like this is the hope uh and the focus in Acts. And then, but they often include the ascension. And uh, and I'll just I'll I'll finish uh with with just saying that I think this comes back to something we talked about before with the gospel being the gospel of the kingdom. If the good news is that Jesus is king, that Jesus is Lord, then uh certainly the king taking his throne in heaven to reign above um is uh is part of the good news that he is exalted and he reigns. Jesus reigns, he has risen from the dead and and he is Lord. Uh he's reigning over heaven, God has made him both Lord and Christ. Verse 36 in Acts 2 uh wraps up Peter's sermon, and this is really the conclusion of all that he has said. God has made him both Lord and Christ, um, then ascension and and the outpouring of the Spirit um must uh all be held together as part of the good news that we preach. Right.
SPEAKER_02So so many pastors and and you know, lay theologians are not really sure what to do with the ascension. We, you know, it feels like it ought to have more import than what it does, right? Uh is it just a stepping stone to Pentecost? Uh, does it have significance in the whole incarnation and atonement of Christ? And uh we're saying yes, yes, it does. And we want to talk a little bit about that significance and then how we can celebrate that as Christians um in our uh local churches and how it can um can both affect our worship but also affect our outlook as to what to anticipate. So let me throw out a question to you. Uh, was Christ glorified in his body at the resurrection or the ascension?
SPEAKER_01Well, I don't know that it's an either-or question. What what how about this? Define what you mean by glorified. I want you to.
SPEAKER_02Did he have did he have his uh did the disciples and those witnesses and those in those 40 days see the glorified body, the the eternal glorified body of Christ? Or was there glory yet to come that was complete in the ascension?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and that's why I want to answer both and and say it's not in either or because you know, 1 Corinthians 15, um, Paul talks about how the body is raised. You know, it's sown, um, it's sown perishable, it's sown weak, uh, it's sown subject to corruption. Let me just read it here. Um, first Corinthians 15, beginning of verse 42. So it is with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown perishable, raised imperishable, sown in dishonor is raised in glory. I want to say that the resurrection body of Jesus was raised in glory at the resurrection. And so in that sense, it was glorified. But I think what you're touching on is that there is glory yet to be revealed. Um, and I don't know exactly what that means. Uh, I'd love to hear your, you know, if you have any thoughts along those lines. I don't, I don't either.
SPEAKER_02I don't either except except that the ascension points to the reality that Christ in the end, not only did he raise his human body from the grave, but he took it with him to to glory, right? He took it with him back to the Father. And and so it tells us something about both humanity and about Christ Himself, that he did not set aside. Once he assumed humanity, he has not set that aside. Yes, and that's what we see in the ascension. We don't get all of that in the resurrection. Uh, yes, we believe in the bodily resurrection, but we have to continue with that physical theology and say, yes, and he ascended visibly and bodily. Um, he he you know physically you know lifted off the ground and into the sky. And now that interestingly, the early church fathers, uh Augustine, especially, but I think Tertullian does as well, they talk about um this whole you know idea of so is Christ up there floating around somewhere in his physical body. And and you know, in in modern terminology, I would put it this way like you can't you we can't get in a spaceship and think that we might just happen to come across Jesus Christ, right? Okay, so they addressed that you know nearly 2,000 years ago.
SPEAKER_01Um 1500 years ago, at least the reason why we don't feel that tension anymore is because we have we have um transferred what is physical about redemption to the heaven. And so we think about heaven as a place right now that we go in terms of a physical place where there's streets of gold and you can walk around. So there we don't, and we we imagine our loved ones up there with their physical bodies now. We we you know, we we see paintings of that. We see, and so when we hear Jesus' physical body went in heaven, you know, we don't think of, we don't feel the tension in that, but no, heaven is not a physical place like earth right now. Um, so what does that mean? You know, what does it even mean for Jesus to sit at the right hand of the Father? Like, does the Father have a right hand? I mean, he the Father's not incarnate, so it's not like in any sense, according he has a human nature according to which he can be circumscribed, you know, in any way. Like, what does that even mean? You know, so and then you have in Hebrews, like how he enters, and that's another thing we have to talk about about the priestly implications, you know, he's a he's a priest king in heaven, he's he's gone there to provide to uh offer the sacrifice, to present, I'm sorry, present the sacrifice. Um, but it's like, you know, what what does that mean for Christ to even be physically there? But the reason why it's so important to affirm that he is there in his physical body is because that's our hope for going for going to heaven in the presence of God as well. You know, Thomas Aquinas said, by placing in heaven the human nature which he assumed, Christ gave us the hope of going thither. I think it's like one of three reasons that Aquinas gives for the ascension.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so I think the the physical aspect of the ascension is is really the uh one of two keys here to making sense of the ascension and why it fits into um the the whole sequence of uh uh events. It is that in the ascension, Christ shows us that material being is not evil. It is that God can has descended in order to take something material, namely human nature, into himself. And so we avoid obviously Gnosticism, the ancient heresy of Gnosticism, which said that you know that when God ultimately saves the world, he's gonna trash the world, get rid of this body, get rid of the material world, and we're all gonna be spirit. No, that's wrong. Jesus proved that wrong in his physical resurrection, followed by his physical ascension. So I think that's one aspect. Uh the other aspect then to the ascension is uh that he is that he was returning. There's a return here. Uh there's the descent and the ascent to the to the um to the incarnation. It is the ascent that is the return to, as you mentioned, the right hand of the father, to what we just generically call heaven, which just is another way of saying the dwelling place of God, or as the psalmist really sees it, the control room of the universe, uh, where God does what he wants to do in making sure that what happens in the world happens. Uh, but that's where Christ is. He is sovereign. It meant it is a reference to his sovereignty, to his lordship, to his uh total victory, to you know, to his power, uh, to his kingship. All of those themes are wrapped up in the ascension. And so we um it is uh really a continuation of a similar celebration that we would begin on Palm Sunday, where you know we worship Christ as King, we emphasize him as king. What's it really, this is the time. The ascension is the time where that's really focused, uh as the as the total lordship of Christ over spiritual and physical worlds.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we tend to think about the ascension in terms of Jesus going away, and um, that it are our minds immediately go to the second coming. And so we tend to just skip over what the ascension means for us right now, because it's again, it's just kind of like we're waiting for Jesus to come and reign. He's going to reign in the future, he's gonna come back and reign and put establish his kingdom. But you know, what you're touching on there is really the here and not yet, you know, aspect of the kingdom, the here aspect of the here and not yet kingdom. Like Christ has begun to reign, and the kingdom always comes. Uh it's it's trinitarian. It comes uh when the son, when the father sends the son and the spirit. And so Jesus goes around and he begins to exercise his authority on earth. He casts out demons and he says, if I do this through the the Holy Spirit, the kingdom of God has come upon you. So that's why the the aspect of Pentecost is inseparable from ascension, because Jesus said, you know, it's better for me to go away. It's better that I go away, because if I go away, I will send the Holy Spirit. And in Acts 2 says that he has received from the Father, um, you know, this this is part of what it means for him to be exalted, is that now he's pouring out the Spirit from the Father, sending the Spirit from the Father. And it's through the Holy Spirit that he's now beginning to reign and especially to reign in the church. That when the spirit comes, the church is created. And so this is like the center of God's redemptive reign on earth now. Um, so that's why, again, resurrection, ascension, and Pentecost are all one event that are just uh right at the heart of the good news of the kingdom of God.
SPEAKER_02So the early church fathers love to talk about you know the the assumption of humanity and and more than just one or two of them, but several of them made reference to what is not assumed is not redeemed.
SPEAKER_01And right was the first, I think. What's that? I think Nausyanzis was the first. Gregory of Nazioni was the first to coin that. We're gonna read him here in a few months.
SPEAKER_02Right, right. Yeah, yeah. So he he he used that in his uh 101st epistle, and uh Theodora Mopswestia does as well in a homily. I'm not sure what his dates are, but um what is not assumed is not redeemed. And the ascension is like the final statement that humanity has truly been assumed and it has been redeemed. It is part of the redemption plan of God, the not just humanity, but humanity stands in here for all of creation, the whole material world, uh, so that Paul and Colossians can talk about the reconciliation of all things in heaven and in earth to God through Christ.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so we one of the things we were talking about earlier this week was about trying to mention some articles on the site. So I uh I wish there was more content on Holy Joys right now about the ascension, but I did write an article last year that um that touches on this. One of the sections is he took our humanity to heaven. And I talk about how, you know, having atoned for human nature by dying on the cross as our substitute, he then exalted our humanity by taking it to heaven. Christ rises, we rise with him. Christ ascends, we ascend with him. And Paul says that God has raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus. And so I think this patristic emphasis that you're that you're pointing to is that just as the resurrection is something in which we participate, the ascension is as well. And I don't know that we have any sense hardly of that. We do have a sense that, you know, we need you need to die, die to sin. And so there's a connection there, take up your cross. We're familiar with with the language of resurrection, you know, of new life, new birth. Uh, you know, Peter talks about our born again to a living hope through the resurrection. But um the the fathers understood that because Christ has assumed our our one humanity, and then we become united with Christ by his spirit, even the ascension um and session in some way is something that we participate in. And that's just that's just mind-boggling.
SPEAKER_02Let me add this uh the Roman Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation, right? That the elements in the Eucharist, the the wine, the bread, become the literal body of Jesus Christ. And I just want to say it seems to me the ascension says, nope, sorry, that's not possible. Jesus Christ took every piece of his body with him, uh, and he did not leave any part of his physical body. Uh the body he left is the church. Right. You know, that's that's the most physical manifestation of Christ that we can experience now. Um, and uh, you know, we are called to be Christ-like, but no one ever mistook me for Christ. And you know, I aspire to to grow in my Christ-likeness and my attitudes and my actions and in every way possible for certain, but um he he assumed his body in in uh the conception, and he that same body was broken, it was beaten, but it was not divided, right? And it did not see corruption. He took every piece of his body from the grave, from the earth, and returned to the Father.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, I'm really glad you brought the Eucharist in because not only in the Protestant Roman Catholic debates over Eucharist, but um in in within Protestantism itself, um, this was really like like a key point in the in the discussion between uh Luther and Um and Calvin and Zwingli. Um so if you're going to ask the question, how is Christ present in the Eucharist? Well, you've got to ask, okay, well, where is Jesus, right? That's the first thing. Well, Jesus is in heaven. So, you know, the like the Lutherans, and I think a lot of confusion here, like there's a there's a lot of thinking that Protestants don't believe that Jesus is physically present in any way in the supper. But really, Lutherans do actually in many ways are closer to Roman Catholics on that point, because Luther did insist that Jesus is physically there, uh, physically, like his actual flesh and blood, not that, not that the substance changes, but that it's in, around, and with the elements. So, you know, Luther's saying, look, you know, Jesus said, if you don't eat my flesh, drink my blood, um, you know, you can't be saved. He said, This is my body. And so, you know, you who are just make turning this into a symbol, which is Zwingli, I think we can all agree he fell off the wagon on that one. Or Calvin, who said, who said it's spiritual, you're you're like rejecting salvation. Like this is our, you know, this is essential for salvation. And then, you know, the Calvinists, and we would, we as Wesleans would agree with Calvin pretty much in his understanding of the supper. There's the Anglican church spiritually present. They're saying the same thing, you're denying salvation because you're saying, you know, how can Christ be at multiple places at once? You know, physical humanity is circumscribed by its very nature, it's limited to one place. So it's almost like you're denying that Jesus is fully present. So you see how this question is like inseparable from our sacramental theology. And um, and I think that what we don't want to do in that discussion is go um the Zwinglian route, because what it really reflects is this idea that ascension means Christ is absent. But for for us, we believe that Christ is present in a new way. Uh Ben Ma Ben Myers, uh, mentioned this I think once or twice before, as a great little book on the Apostles' Creed. But he says this when the New Testament writers speak of the ascension, they are not describing Jesus' absence, but his sovereign presence throughout creation. He has not gone away, but has become even more fully present. His ascent to the right hand of the Father is his public enthronement over all worldly power. So, what I think the strength of a reformed view of the Eucharist is that not only can we just say, well, this he's spiritually present, but we can actually connect this to the ascension and say that because The ascension, he's present in the Eucharist in a special way. You know, there's something unique about the way in which he's present. This isn't just his normal presence. It's not just, you know, the it's not just the ordinary presence that we experience, but there's something unique and special about this. Um, and I think that's consistent with what you know, with what you're saying.
SPEAKER_02Right. So so that leads me to this. We we need to remember that there were three or four occasions. See if I can remember them off the top of my head, when Jesus promised that he would always be with us in those on those occasions. So for instance, uh, he commissions his disciples, Matthew 28. He says, I will be with you always, right? Even to the end of the age. Um he says, when you when you are serving those who are um you know underprivileged, you know, giving a cup cup of cold water, when you're visiting the the sick, when you are you know clothing the naked, and so on. And he uses that phrase. He says, When you've done it to the least of these, my brothers, you've done it to me, right? So there that's a promise of presence. Um and then there's the promise of presence in in the Eucharist. Uh, I think there was one other time, it's slipping my head right now, but um there was one other time when Christ talks about his promised presence. So we have those promises and those other instances, and the Eucharist is is one of those where we have his promised presence. And so when we are talking about the Eucharist, it's you know, that's why you know Zwingli's approach to this is a symbol, uh, which I think really a lot of people have fallen into. Um, because if we really believe believed it was more than a symbol, then we probably would not relegate you know the Eucharist to maybe once a year. Uh, if we really believed in the real presence and the real promise of Christ's presence, then probably we'd be a little more, a little hungrier and a little thirstier for uh the bread and the wine. Uh so I would I would encourage people listening, start adjusting your mindset on this and recognize that Christ did give us a promise of being present and in these particular actions and in these these particular moments. Of course, he's always present in some sense, but he he specifically identifies these, including the Eucharist, as a time where he will be specially present.
SPEAKER_01Why don't we just shift gears here for a few more minutes as we wrap this up to talk a little bit about the priestly implications, because I think there is a connection with the Eucharist as well. We we again tend to think that Protestants were primarily opposed to the idea that Jesus' physical flesh and blood was in the supper. But again, Luther basically affirmed that, although he didn't affirm the change of the substance. Um, what really I think was the sticking point for Protestants is how Roman Catholics seemed to treat the Eucharist almost as, if not just I don't want to say this, maybe even more than a representation of the sacrifice, to the extent that it almost seemed like it was like a crucifying afresh, and it became very idolatrous and very uh it seemed that you know to Protestants. And that was the primary sticking point. The idea uh against that view is that in the ascension, Christ has presented the once-for-all sacrifice, he's presented it to the Father in heaven in the heavenly tabernacle, uh, which I don't take to be a literal physical tabernacle in heaven. Some have taken that view. I think it's probably a hyper literalistic reading of Hebrews. Um, but I was listening to a New Testament scholar, her name slips my mind. Oh my. Anyway, she made the point that there's a strain of Hebrew scholarship that argues that the atonement wasn't really complete until its presentation. Um, and I want to say, you know, we don't want to shift the focus away from the cross as the primary atoning event or the center of the atonement. But uh, in some sense, the the presentation uh of the offering to the Father, the presentation of the sacrifice in heaven in Hebrews is certainly viewed as absolutely central to the atoning event and uh and to our access to the Father. So um the priestly implications, this this king is a priest king. Um this king is one who intercedes for us on our behalf. And if we have sometimes missed the royal implications, I do think that I hear more about this, the confidence that because Christ is in heaven, he's there and we can pray to the Father. Um, what are your thoughts on um on what it means for Christ to enter into heaven as our priest?
SPEAKER_02I I think it first of all uh reiterates the once and for all thing of Hebrews. Uh there's a finality uh to it. There is a um there's there is in a sense a goodbye to sin. Uh there's a goodbye to death, and there is a a welcome to the beginning of the resurrection of the world of all creation that is taking place in in those moments and will someday be revealed to us. You know, in a sense, the veil will be torn, um, you know, the the the sky will be rent and and Christ will return and and unveil what right now is is invisible to us. And the best we can do right now, thank God that he left us with the images that we uh that we use in the Eucharist, uh, but those images I think are constantly drawing us, as Paul says in 1 Corinthians 11, drawing us to the coming. That coming is an unveiling, uh not only an unveiling of of Christ Himself, but an unveiling of of all things being reconciled to God. And that's what we're testifying to uh in faith every time we gather for the Eucharist as well. Uh so yeah, the presentation is uh the the invisible side of the ascension, right? Uh so we have witnesses, Paul tell talks about the witnesses, Luke describes the witnesses there in Acts 1, of those who who saw the ascending Christ and uh and Jesus uh you know apparently revealed to the apostle what was happening after that ascension, uh to some measure, and to the Hebrews writer. Uh but uh but we we don't see that, but it will be unveiled to us.
SPEAKER_01Let me ask you one more question before we wrap up. How do we celebrate this as a church? Um, why don't we just conclude with a note about liturgy? I know uh of churches that uh do not uh really celebrate Ascension Day. Um, and what what advice could you give to pastor um to encourage them to see the value and setting aside that Sunday to really focus on celebrating this and what it means for our salvation? Um, and um and maybe even uh how our liturgy on Ascension Day or Ascension Sunday ought to position us for Pentecost Sunday, the following Sunday. Uh how are the two related absolutely.
SPEAKER_02So we or I like to use it as a refocus or a recounting of our celebration uh from uh Lent, Holy Week, uh uh and Easter. So kind of looking back, recounting that again, and saying, you know, reminding our people that this is this is done, this is finished, you know, the resurrection has begun, you know, or go back a step. You know, sin has been paid for. Um you know, our sins have been you know nailed to the cross. Uh death does not have victory. Uh life wins. Life is given to us, the resurrection has begun. And then also turning people's attention toward the Holy Spirit. Uh, because no sooner does Jesus disappear into the clouds, but the expectation is that they will pray, they will tarry, they will pray, and they will await the giving of the Holy Spirit. So there's definitely a dual focus in that. And it's I think it's a wonderful time to recount what we've gone through the past several weeks, what we've experienced as the church each year as we celebrate um Lent and then the Easter seasons.
SPEAKER_01So I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination on church liturgy. Maybe you would know. Um, has there ever been any precedent for taking the time between Ascension Day and Pentecost to have focused prayer as a church? Um, for you know, in seeking the Holy Spirit, um, assuming that kind of uh position of anticipation, even though we know that the comforter has come, we're we're preparing for a day in which between ascension and Pentecost, we're gonna focus on that. Would that be, you know, is there any precedent for that? And what would that, you know, could that look like to call a time in your congregation this week? Let's let's focus on seeking the Holy Spirit and um and his ministry among us. Certainly.
SPEAKER_02Uh yeah, there certainly is. And I can't draw out of my mind now, you know, specific instances in history or or those who write about it, but uh certainly it is a time when the church uh specifically prays for uh the Holy Spirit and um you know passages referring back to Jesus' reminder that you know if we will ask of the Father, you know He will give us the Spirit, He will give us good gifts, particularly the Spirit. Uh so I I think the church um through the centuries, now these particular dates, you know, don't go back, you know, 1800 years, they go back less time than that as far as the specific dates in the calendar, how it all came together. But for centuries, Christians have certainly utilized those those days to seek uh God the Spirit, and knowing that in the uh what's called the ordinary time or the season, the lengthy season of Pentecost, uh the focus is on uh the mission that God has shared with the church. And it's a recognition that uh for us, as we here in the northern hemisphere, as we go into summer, uh there are opportunities for ministry with warmer weather, obviously, uh opportunities for ministry, and so we seek the Holy Spirit's aid in our uh evangelistic efforts, in our uh involvement in the community. You know, there are community events through the summer that we participate in, there are festivals and that sort of thing where the church needs to be present. And it's a time of preparing our hearts uh for those moments.
SPEAKER_01You wrote an article last year on the forgotten holiday of Pentecost and how churches can celebrate it. And you talk about to begin preparing for Pentecost during the Easter season. That's your first point. Um, and you give several verses that remind us that during the Easter season, the Christian looks forward, you know, in this joyful anticipation. And so we want our people to sense our joyful anticipation from our sermons and songs, uh, as well as visually and our church decorations. You talk about adorning the sanctuary with biblical symbols of the Holy Spirit, a dove, um, this various uh the colors of Pentecost, red and white, the traditional colors. Um, you talk about anointing the sick with oil during this time, which I thought was was very interesting. And um in several other ways that we can um that we can uh observe Pentecost, prepare for it. Uh the last of which is the one that you were just highlighting, celebrating the gifts of the Spirit, drawing attention to how the Spirit empowers us with gifts to serve the church and then also to serve the world.
SPEAKER_02So I love to use the image of a flame. And so we have, we were able to find some sort of uh large glass uh bowl that you put in, you fill with the gel, and you can you can light a flame. Um and and so we I love to use that. We only use it on that on that day, uh, but I love the image of that. And uh there are a lot of ways. Pentecost is, you know, you're not gonna go to you know your local Walmart and find you know seasonal uh decorations for Pentecost. Uh so you have to you know really do some searching and thinking. Uh, but there are a lot of ideas. Um, we have some Pentecost banners, you know, red banners with the dove and with the flame, those sorts of things uh that we put up as well. Um really just to um let people uh people need to see, be reminded of what it is. Uh people are visual, and so that helps. Um, but certainly, you know, the celebration of Pentecost is, and I think I made this point, uh, is a celebration of the church, celebration of being part of the church of Jesus Christ, being part of the body of Christ. And it is a celebration of the gift of the Holy Spirit and also a celebration that by the Spirit the church has been formed, and that we are part of uh something that is uh not lonely. Uh we are not isolated, but we're part of the body. Many members.
SPEAKER_00The body is not one, Paul said, uh, but is many, and that's the time we celebrate it. Thank you for listening to the Holy Joys Podcast. Email your questions to podcast at holyjoys.org, and they may be featured on a future episode. Our labors for a holy happy church are supported by generous listeners like you. Please pray about partnering with us at holyjoys.org forward slash donate.
