Holy Joys Podcast
A discussion of theology and ministry practice, all for a holy, happy church. A ministry of holyjoys.org.
Holy Joys Podcast
Creation Care, Earth Day, and Halloween
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Dr. Fry and Johnathan Arnold discuss a Christian view of caring for the environment and how it relates to a physical theology. The church's redemptive presence is discussed in relation to Earth Day and other holidays that many Christians avoid such as Halloween.
One reason why we don't trash creation is because it's the theater of God's glory. You don't trash God's theater. You you don't obscure uh the beauty which points men to God.
SPEAKER_01The reason we care for the environment is a to honor our creator, and b in order to love our neighbors ourselves. We share the world, and so it is also a matter of caring for one another.
SPEAKER_00You're listening to the Holy Joys Podcast, co-hosted by Jonathan Arnold and Dr. David Fry. Visit us at holyjoys.org and stay tuned for weekly discussions of theology and ministry practice, all for a holy, happy church.
SPEAKER_02All right. We are back together to talk about what we're preaching. And you shared a sermon with me here recently. I thought was pretty interesting. You preached for Earth Day. Is that correct? In connection with Earth Day?
SPEAKER_01Right. Uh, the Sunday prior to Earth Day, I preached on creation care. And uh in conjunction with uh, of course, Easter season and what we thought was going to be a you know the beginning full-blown spring season, and we ended up having snow like two days later. So I had more than a few people come to me and say, you preached that one week too early because we're getting snow.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So the extent of my um knowledge about Earth Day growing up was the about those stinking tree huggers. So tell me why you're not a liberal fruitcake and why you think this is something that Christians should actually think about. Right.
SPEAKER_01Right, right. It it is another one of those issues that I think uh Christians ought to be on the leading edge instead of uh of you know the re the reactionaries coming from behind, you know. Um and the reason is because this is an important issue, uh, creation care, because uh it's important to God. And God's Word has a lot to say about uh creation care, has a lot to say about uh about general revelation and how we can see um see something of God through uh creation. Uh God's fingerprints, so to speak, are all over the world. And if we, as Christians, don't point that out and don't draw people's attention to that, they're going to interpret nature and see nature very differently. And I think one of the big differences between a secular environmentalist approach and a Christian creation care approach is that, you know, the the I how did you say it, uh, liberal tree hugger uh type, uh, they tend to see humanity as the enemy of nature. And for sure, humanity has done a lot, even in my lifetime, has has uh you know, through wars and and uh you know greed and a lot, a lot of those things uh that cause exploitation of resources. Um certainly that's happened, but uh Christians have a different idea and view of the world. Um that is that the world is here for our enjoyment. And uh, you know, words like exploitation are a little tricky. Uh does exploitation take place? Yes, it does, uh, but there may be a line that needs to be more clearly defined between usefulness, making use of what God has given to us, entrusted to us, and exploiting it in a greedy way. Uh and uh and Christians need to make some distinctions there. Uh but uh the central point being for Christians uh humanity is at the center of creation and for uh you know secular um secular environmentalists uh humanity is the pure enemy of of nature. So those are two very different worldviews, and and we need to uh you know espouse a clear doctrine of creation and humanity together.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so you mentioned general revelation, um, reminded me of Calvin's great image of creation as the theater of God's glory. So one reason why we don't trash creation um is because it's the theater of God's glory. You don't trash God's theater, you you don't obscure uh the beauty which points men to God. Um so yeah, I think that's that's helpful. And you you're using this term creation, creation care. Maybe talk a little bit more about um you're very intentional, you know, with that, that that's loaded with a lot of meaning. Why are you why are you using that particular uh term so much?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, creation care is the phrase that evangelical Christians have been using for uh a few decades. And uh although evangelicals were a little slow uh getting on board with uh really giving attention to uh to creation care in the environment and nature, uh the you know, various movements such as the Earth Day movement, which goes goes back to 1970, uh evangelicals began to say, you know what, hey, this is something we need to be giving attention to as well. You know, this is a biblical mandate, very clear mandate given uh to Adam and Eve. And so we need to be involved in this conversation. Uh but instead of uh identifying as environmentalists, uh they uh I don't know where you know who used the term first, but it gained currency, uh, creation care. And so you have a lot of books out there that have been written by by Christians, and that's typically the phrase that they use, creation care. And the the importance of it is that obviously it uses a theistic word, creation. You know, it's not we're not referring just to nature, right? But this is created nature. Uh, it's not something that just happened, but it's something that's intentional. So that that is a worldview matter, and then care speaks to our responsibility as human beings. Uh, we are given, entrusted to us by God uh the the created world. And uh, you know, we read, of course, in Genesis 2 of Adam's uh care for uh for the garden and for the animals and for the created world. And of course, that didn't seem to last very long before it fell, but that mandate still applies to us, and uh God intends for us to still heed his word and plan.
SPEAKER_02What would you say to somebody who says, well, that was God's plan for Adam before the fall, but now that this world has fallen, God's gonna destroy it, you know, it's gonna be burned up with fire. I heard this growing up, so why do why do we care, you know, about the environment? It's all gonna be burned up, you know, destroyed anyway. Um, now that creation has fallen and crisis come, all that matters is the Great Commission, uh, the saving of souls is the only thing you need to worry about uh because we're all gonna leave this world anyway. Uh that's probably the main objection I've heard. It's kind of like a pseudo-theological argument. What would you say to that?
SPEAKER_01You know, I think the reason that that reason there is why there has been such a strong recovery of the Christian view of the world. And part of this creation care, uh, I mean, this precedes the the you know modern you know environmentalists and creation care movements, but uh there has been a strong effort to recover a physical theology, would what I just call a physical theology, that God doesn't make trash. Now, we talked about this in our uh podcast on heaven and uh looking at you know the metaphor of you know the earth burning up. And you find this in the Old Testament, we find this in the New Testament, particularly in Peter's epistles. Uh, but that's apocalyptic language. And uh most interestingly, uh, when Peter uh speaks of the earth burning up in uh 2 Peter 3, uh people overlook the fact that he uses Noah's flood as the example of what's got of what God is going to do to the earth. And you if you think of that example, what remained after the flood? The earth remained. God didn't didn't throw the earth away, he cleansed it of wickedness. And that's what God's intention is is for this. Now, what is wickedness? Well, it's not nature, because God declared that very good. And what what God declared good, he is not going to destroy or throw away. He is going to recover it and and renew it and set it back on track for where it ought to be going. So uh, and then the other passage I think is so critical uh on this is Romans, uh Romans 8, right? Uh Romans 8 uh 19, creation is awaiting with eager longing, happy anticipation is how I like to translate that. Uh happy anticipation for the revealing of the sons of God. Verse 21, uh creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption. Uh and not only is creation waiting, but we are waiting eagerly for the adoption of sons. So all of the natural world is longing to be freed from this burden that comes through humanity, through Adam's sin. Uh, all of all even the natural world has been corrupted, but it's waiting for uh the day of redemption. Uh looking for and hastening, as Peter tells us to do, uh, so is all of creation, looking for and hastening the day of God.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So to re go back to this creation care point for a second and read something, a little excerpt from your sermon here. I thought was really good. Um, caring for creation without seeing the glory of the creator is like reading a book without understanding the point. This is the difference between the two approaches. Mere environmentalism ends up being a human-focused concern, whereas Christian creation care seeks to honor the creator. And so the danger, I think, that you're pointing out is that we would react against mere environmentalism and its human focus by just saying, well, then it just doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if we care for the environment, rather than saying, no, we actually have different reasons for caring for the creation, and we don't, we're not going to go to these extremes. Because certainly there have been, there have been extremes. Um, but uh yeah, it's really helpful. Certainly.
SPEAKER_01Right, right. And and so it's those extremes that kind of put a bad taste in the mouth of uh you know a Christian who who uh should understand that we do all things for the glory of Christ. Um and they see or hear these just incredible stories of someone saving an animal or a tree or an iceberg to the expense of human life, right? Or to the uh to the oversight of of humanity itself. And and and that's a fundamentally different approach and worldview uh because we don't do these things to a Christian, we don't care for the environment to the expense of humanity. The reason we care for the environment is A to honor our Creator and B in order to love our neighbor as ourselves. We share the world, and so it is also a matter of of uh caring for one another. Um and so uh you know all of that ought to inform our approach to uh to nature and uh to to creation. So if there are those out there who are interested in reading a little bit more about how Christians have thought about creation and creation care, I would recommend starting with uh the uh first nine sermons by Basel of Caesarea. Now the first nine sermons uh by Basel are on Genesis, well, really just the creation account, and just beautiful sermons. Uh just absolutely magnificent. I I cite him, I I quote him several times in my own sermon. Um absolutely worth your time reading those nine sermons. And unfortunately, they're they were not complete, or at least we don't have all the sermons. Uh we have the first nine, he he mentions other sermons that he is going to be giving, but we don't have those. Uh but the ones we have are absolutely magnificent. And and one of the things I like about those sermons is that he ends with a a prayer. And uh, in fact, the prayer that I included in my sermon is an adaptation of uh one of his prayers, and I think it's just uh beautifully, beautifully written. Uh just a masterful sermon writer, uh Basel was.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, in June for our uh patristics reading, we will be uh reading Basel, and we have recommended there on our reading list his sermons on creation. So make sure to link those. You had sent me a quote from Basel uh we posted on Holy Joys for Earth Day. The world is a work of art set before all for contemplation, so that through it the wisdom of him who created it should be known. Um and so I guess uh to come back to loving your neighbor, that is one of the ways that we love our neighbor by preserving the beauty of God's uh general revelation so that they can see uh through it God's own uh wisdom and um and beauty.
SPEAKER_01There is one other objection that I want to mention here and repl respond to. So some people will say, you know, there are certain days, uh, you know, Halloween would be one of these, uh perhaps Earth Day and maybe some other days, that Christians ought to just steer clear of. Just stay away. That's that's totally secular or evil, and we need to just steer away from it. Um I don't totally disagree with that, but I I don't I I want to issue this warning, and that is that if there's something there, if there's a kernel of of truth and beauty, don't forfeit that. Don't give that up just because it's been corrupted. And so, for instance, Halloween is all Saints Day Eve. Um you know, I I there are so many things I don't like about Halloween. Uh, there are so many things I don't like about Earth Day, but there's something that is good and beautiful and holy and true that a Christian ought to have a clear vision of. And this is an opportunity for us to be a redemptive presence in the world in the midst of a world that is searching for beauty through Earth Day and saying there is beauty, and this beauty reflects the glorious and beautiful and happy God that we serve. And isn't it so kind of him to share that beauty with us? And so we we can, as Christians, we can declare those things and find that that kernel of truth and these different moments and and days that people celebrate and be a redemptive presence for good.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so uh we are uh a ways removed from Halloween, but let's talk about that for a minute because uh I have I've rethought this a bit. Um, you know, I've been so just disgusted by some of the things that I've seen in the last couple of years. Um it's just like getting so disturbing um right here in our little town. I mean, like bloody handprints on the, you know, on the windows everywhere. I mean, it's just so perverse. And uh, you know, I have pretty much just steered clear of it. You know, we have Reformation Day, so spent some time to inform people about the Reformation. We actually had a little Reformation party with our youth group a couple years back and had a Martin Luther cake and you know, talked about it. So we tried to find ways, you know, to turn it into something. Um, but I but I do know, you know, we have very interesting history. Uh basically, we, you know, as the church, it's Halloween was our day, right? You know, and then it just got totally perverted. So why don't you talk about that a little more? I'd like because I just want to hear what you have to say. Like how do you observe it? Um, give a little bit more of the history, maybe. It's a very interesting um illustration of how more general principle that we have a tendency to just um you know have take this separatist approach versus a more redemptive, engaging approach with culture.
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm. Yeah, so I treat uh All Saints Day and All Saints Day Eve as the kind of the culmination of our celebration of the church as the body of Christ. You know, now uh that you know that season, that long season of Pentecost, it you know, that what's traditionally called ordinary time, the time of the church, the time of celebrating uh you know God's people and in holy fellowship. And uh and so we we tend to focus on that during that time of the year. Obviously, you have Reformation. We we celebrate Reformation, we remind people of the theological significance of Reformation, uh, why we are Protestant, why that's important. Uh but uh the other aspect is that you know, all Saints Day and obviously Halloween is a perverted uh do you call it celebration? I don't know what you call it, but it's a perverted holiday of uh uh of death. And there is a Christian theology of death, and we need to put out uh the truth about death and talk about what death is and how it is that Christians uh uh view the passing of life from this age and uh the eternality of our uh and immortality of our resurrected bodies. Um it is a time generally in which I reflect on those who have passed on before us. We we recall the stories, we talk about them, we have we uh uh just share uh about the people here in our local church who have passed on, and we try to keep their memory alive. I think that's important for children and grandchildren uh to hear us talk about uh those that we're following. And so we do that, and um at the same time trying to uh place death in perspective, not in this uh gross or even uh in some ways childish and extreme ways would be very evil and and uh diabolical. Not in those ways, uh we need to show forth the truth, and that's an opportunity. I I've said for years, it's an opportunity for the church to be a redemptive presence. Uh, you know, we've done things like pass out candy from the church parking lot. We've done things, and I've said, you know what, we're going to, we're not gonna dress up as whatever, you know, a Disney character. We're not gonna, you know, if if we want to share, if we want to, you know, someone wants to decorate their car as a Noah's Ark or something, let's introduce them to truth, right? And so we've done that in the past. Uh let's let's give them truth here. Let's let's use an occasion uh not to you know dress up as something else, but let's let's decorate as biblical characters telling biblical stories um in order to draw them in, right? We'll give them candy. We want to make sure they're getting truth somehow uh during that time. Now, some people would uh think, well, no, that's that's even too far. You know, don't whatever you do, don't give them Bible stories on that day. Um that's a little sarcasm. But uh no, there are some who just aren't comfortable at all because obviously you have people coming. Coming, you have kids from the community coming and they're dressed up as goblins or whatever, witches and stuff. Um, yeah, you have that for sure. Um, but you know, I think the church, we we are called to be a redemptive presence, and uh we are to take the truth of God wherever it it needs to be taken and whenever it needs to be taken. So maybe you could dress up as Martin Luther this year. I have before. Actually, I actually have a Martin Luther. I do. I have a Martin Luther outfit uh that I have uh that I've used for some years.
SPEAKER_02If you send me that picture, I think we're gonna get a lot more clicks on this podcast. I thought about titling it what what hath Earth Day to do with Halloween? Uh but anyway, very interesting, very interesting. So I so one last question here. I don't know if this is true because I haven't studied the history. Do you know, is it true that originally um, you know, the dressing up was a way that Christians actually were mocking the devil and demons and were were, you know, kind of making light of it because death has become this thing that Athanasius says children play with. You know, he describes this in we're just read on the incarnation of the word. He talks about how you know death is like this thing that children can run run towards. It's like a dark room that's been flooded with light. The child's not afraid to go there anymore. You know, his fathers went ahead of him and turned on the lights. Like there's no fear of it. So the church would, you know, dr you know, dress. Is that is that is there any historicity to that?
SPEAKER_01There may be. I I have I've actually read a couple of different books on Halloween in particular, and uh from a Christian perspective, the history is uh actually quite ambiguous. Uh there are a lot of different connections, possible connections, and this is true of a lot of different holidays, uh, but Halloween especially uh the first thing I would say is that it is a fairly new holiday relative to you know the other days that are on our Christian calendar. Uh it is relatively new and it is very much a Western thing, you know, European, North America. And um and the the reactions to it have been very, very broad. So some Christians have been very quick to to embrace embrace it. Others, I know uh those from the uh Latino cult culture, uh so we have a Spanish congregation here, uh, they are very adverse to it because from their cultures in South America and Central America, it was just really demonic and had all the appearances of that. And so um, so they were uh several were very, very slow when they heard that we were going to do uh you know, give out candy in the church parking lot, and they weren't sure they wanted to participate. Uh they do now, they have. But so there have been a lot of reactions, but a lot of the confusion really does have to do with exactly what are the associations. But I want to be careful or at least warn people to not fall into the genetic fallacy of saying because this, you know, because an event or uh you know something is associated with something else, therefore it's necessarily wrong, or because it has this particular history, it's necessarily wrong. Now it could be wrong, but that in itself is not enough to conclude that it is necessarily evil. And so we don't want to fall into that genetic fallacy. Um again, all it has to come back, you know, can we can we run this through the grid of the gospel? You know, what comes out on the other side? Um, you know, is there an opportunity to be redemptive? So yeah, I I think if uh if you do some research and and reading, you're gonna find a lot of different uh ideas about the history of it.
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